this is education, spending all of the programs that you are passionate about that will be squeezed as entitlement spending is larger and larger. >> they will be squeezed. if we look beyond, look at 2025, 2030, something has to give. we can't keep squeezing nondefense, ndd, nondefense discretionary. that is already pret itty tight. so something will have to give. some combination of higher revenues, finding ways to save on entitlement. not necessarily benefit cuts but ways to save money on entitlements. use the bargaining power of medicare, fine. that's worth talking about but not a reason to not do deficit spending to support the economy now. >> the argument would be, and this is the argue made by bob rubin and many others that do some stimulus spending but put in place a long-term plan to ensure the markets that you have a plan. you are not hostage to fortune in case interest rates spike suddenly. off process in place that allows it to happen and don't get hemorrhaging of nondefense. >> i'd like to me see men and women of goodwill come together and produce a long term-term solution.